Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: If you're just tuning in, my name is Tim Brigham, and I'm your host for coffee is for closers. This is a conversation with top performers that are just consistent in their production, no matter the current market. And today we have Holly Connors with us, who's an absolute legend in the business, founding member of at properties, and I think year to, well, $780,000,000 year to date.
[00:00:24] Speaker B: Yeah, that's accurate.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: Incredible year. Last year, I think you did, what, just over 100 million?
[00:00:30] Speaker B: About. Yeah, a little bit more, yeah.
[00:00:31] Speaker A: And then this year, again, 90 million.
[00:00:35] Speaker B: We'll close out about 100 million. Yeah.
[00:00:37] Speaker A: Incredible. Incredible. So such a down market. I'd love to hear about it.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: What a crazy introduction. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
[00:00:45] Speaker A: Welcome. So tell me about you. Let's start off. I know a little bit about you, but I think our viewers would love to hear about you and how Holly runs her ship.
[00:00:54] Speaker B: Thank you. So I've been in real estate a little over 20 years. I started with at properties. I haven't been anywhere else.
I answered a Craigslist ad for Mike and Thad, looking for an assistant. The owners of at properties.
[00:01:07] Speaker A: Craigslist.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: Craigslist ad. That's how old I am, a Craigslist dad.
They took me on. I worked with them. And Dave Wolfe and Anne Karan, who are also legends in this industry.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: What a list there.
[00:01:20] Speaker B: Yeah, right? I was fortunate to learn from the best, and as their assistant for a very short amount of time, about a year, decided that I wanted to be on my own and parted ways as their assistant and went off on my own as my own broker.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: Wow. That's incredible. So I think what a lot of people, they see on social media, and they see these things, they see all this glitz and glamour and all these other things. But tell me about you. Right?
[00:01:46] Speaker B: Sure. So today I'm here in a dress and heels, but the reality is I pick up dirty underwear. I've put away dishes. I move boxes of furniture. I'm out in the snow.
It's a reality that this career choice is not clean. There's a lot of mess.
[00:02:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I think a lot of people. I mean, I'll be honest. I used to think that realtors would show up to somebody else's house and they would say, wow, this is great. I mean, you should buy this. Right? I mean, sign right here.
[00:02:14] Speaker B: Just open the door.
[00:02:15] Speaker A: Right?
[00:02:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:16] Speaker A: What do you think is the biggest thing that people would be surprised about of how hard your job is?
[00:02:22] Speaker B: Our job is physically demanding, and that's certainly a part of it. But I think the hardest part is knowing the market and being able to articulate that back to the buyer. I think that's really important and crucial. I also think talking about how the house or condo or whatever you're selling actually works, how it actually happens is important too. And buyers aren't always looking for that in their agent or their broker, but I think they should be.
[00:02:44] Speaker A: It's interesting, I've seen you do this presentation, but how important is. I think it's amazing how you use data as almost like a weapon.
[00:02:53] Speaker B: A weapon? That's funny.
[00:02:54] Speaker A: It's truth.
[00:02:56] Speaker B: I don't think data is a weapon. I think data is an important tool to figure out how you want to move forward. I think data can go any direction. And understanding the data and how to articulate the data and how to really dig into the information so that the consumer understands it is crucial. Buyers need to understand how the market is working. Real estate is a lot less like real estate and more like the stock market. And having a broker who can articulate that and work through the data is crucial.
[00:03:22] Speaker A: So give me some examples like what is something that you primarily work into your presentation? If somebody's looking to sell their home, what's the secret sauce that comes out that you love?
[00:03:33] Speaker B: Of the data points, a couple of my favorites are absorption rate, month, supply of inventory. I really like total showings to contract. That's a data point. I like in residential real estate on the listing side. And I think those are important data points on the buy side as well.
I like median price.
Am I showing my nerdiness now?
[00:03:54] Speaker A: But that's what we want. We want to.
[00:03:56] Speaker B: I like the nerd. I'm a little bit of a nerd.
[00:03:58] Speaker A: Everybody sees on social media, oh, I'm in real estate and this. And they don't understand that there's actual.
[00:04:02] Speaker B: Work, there's hard work and a lot of math, right? This is a b to C environment. I'm working with consumers, and there's emotion and there's feeling. And so having the ability to work with that feeling, but also use those feelings as a tool to be positive and using the data and the math to be successful.
[00:04:21] Speaker A: Right. I think that's the most important piece, is using the data to be successful, not just saying, hey, I'm going to list my house.
[00:04:29] Speaker B: And those successes aren't mine. Those successes are my clients. Those successes are for the consumer to do better and be better in real.
[00:04:36] Speaker A: Right, right.
So I have to ask you a question that everybody tuning in is going to want to know the answer to. I know you're focused on Arlington Heights, right?
[00:04:47] Speaker B: I do work in the suburbs, yes. My office is in downtown Arlington Heights.
[00:04:50] Speaker A: So are the bears really coming?
[00:04:54] Speaker B: In my opinion, I would say yes, and I believe that in part because at a community meeting, the representatives for the organization said that Arlington Heights is really their only choice.
I think it's a great move for the organization. I think it's a positive move for the community, and I think it really benefits the suburbs.
[00:05:14] Speaker A: It's interesting. So how would you think that that would impact the market? So for me, right, as a normal consumer, you know the data well, you're not normal.
[00:05:23] Speaker B: Let's call sade.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: Sade, you heard it here first. So listen, the first part that we look at with a stadium or a casino, right. I look at it as the casino effect, right. You bring in something and not necessarily have a good vibe about that type of growth. What's your opinion on if the bearish were to move?
[00:05:41] Speaker B: I think that we have to look at other areas where there's been big change. Wrigleyville, for example, in the last few years, there's been big change there and it's been positive. I think we need to look at Frisco, Texas. I think we need to look at Arizona. I think we need to look at Oakland. And when big sports teams make big moves, what happens to the community around it? A great example would be truest park outside of Atlanta. When the Braves moved, what happened to the area around there? And we can see from history what's going to happen. We can almost predict the future based on history. So if we look at that information and those data points and we look at the math and the science and what happened in real estate, what happened to police, fire, infrastructure, we can make good decisions to move forward. I have an incredible amount of faith in our community leaders in our village, both in Arlington Heights and Palatine, Buffalo Grove, Elk Grove, Rolling Meadows. All of the community leaders are doing everything they can to ensure that our communities stay safe, that they stay engaged, and they can move forward in a positive way.
[00:06:36] Speaker A: Imagine the Bears coming.
It's going to be so cool.
[00:06:41] Speaker B: I could walk there. It's pretty cool.
[00:06:43] Speaker A: Yeah. I think that the community involvement, too, is all the development that the NFL has shown in the past and what they're going to do surrounding it is going to be incredible because then it'll be a new Arlington Heights, right?
[00:06:55] Speaker B: Well, I don't want to say new Arlington Heights. I think it's an enhanced.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:07:00] Speaker B: I say something I love about the suburbs in Arlington Heights specifically is that small town feel. Now, fun fact, Arlington Heights is the largest suburb in Cook County. Schomburg could win, but it covers a couple counties. So it's a little unfair. Little point there. I love that Arlington Heights is a small town feel, and I have a lot of value in that. And I think bringing the Bears to Arlington Heights isn't going to change that. I believe firmly that it will stay its small town feel, but just enhance what we already have.
[00:07:29] Speaker A: Love it. I love it.
[00:07:31] Speaker B: Just think of the tax income.
[00:07:33] Speaker A: I mean, it's a game changer. It's a complete game changer. And all that gets poured right back into the community.
[00:07:38] Speaker B: We already run at a budget positive. Let's keep moving forward. Change is inevitable.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: The growth and development that comes with. It's going to be awesome.
[00:07:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:46] Speaker A: So let's talk about COVID Right? I think that's what everybody's mind when it comes to real estate as well. Covid created this giant boom. Now, what do you think the media's portrayal of what's going on right now is? Real, or what are you seeing happening?
[00:08:02] Speaker B: If you actually hear what the media in general is saying? It's not 100% accurate. I think we have to really look at the data and understand the data to be accurate. I can throw out numbers to you all day. Like, average in 2019 was five showings to contract in all of Mred, and now it's eight. But what does that mean? If you don't understand the data, then the consumer is just going to hear you and move on. And I think it's important to really comprehend what's actually happening in the marketplace.
[00:08:28] Speaker A: So for everybody that's listening that doesn't understand what you just said, can you go a little deeper with that? Explain that data.
[00:08:33] Speaker B: So in 2019, the average showing, the listing needed average five showings to get a contract.
[00:08:39] Speaker A: Simple. Sure.
[00:08:40] Speaker B: Makes sense.
[00:08:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:41] Speaker B: When we went through Covid, we went up to seven or seven and a half or almost eight showings to get a contract. That's great. Right? That means that we're getting more showings per listing to get it.
[00:08:52] Speaker A: It's surprising. Like, I would think it was less. Right. Because everything moved so quickly and you're saying it actually increased.
[00:08:57] Speaker B: It increased. There were more buyers in the market. So more demand.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay.
[00:09:02] Speaker B: We are now in all of emred at 8.3 showings on average to get a contract.
[00:09:07] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:09:07] Speaker B: Where in 2019 we were at less. So what does that tell you about demand?
[00:09:11] Speaker A: Yeah, I can tell you as a mortgage lender, my phone doesn't stop.
[00:09:16] Speaker B: Right.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: And when people call and say, well, interest rates are supposed to have affected things, but they really, I mean, we're starting to look at things a little bit differently. Like, yeah, interest rates are cyclical, so they're up right now. But what happens when they go back down?
[00:09:32] Speaker B: Right. And I'm advising maybe like you, that consumers really need to be in the marketplace now because if rates go up slightly even more or if they come down, you're positioned to make good financial decisions for the long term.
[00:09:44] Speaker A: Yeah, so I'm coaching on. Right. What happens if rates come down? The demand will increase. But if you're telling me that we're still having showings, I'm still issuing pre approvals, that tells us that demand is already at an unsustainable level because we don't have inventory to support. That's right, rates drop. You'll have a consumer that maybe is hanging onto their house that doesn't want to sell to buy another one because their current interest rates are in the threes and fours. If our rates drop, maybe they're willing to actually move on to another house versus right now they're saying look at something that's a little bit higher. I mean, it's for a perfect storm. You buy now and you negotiate. Right.
[00:10:22] Speaker B: Agree.
[00:10:23] Speaker A: And then refinance it later.
[00:10:24] Speaker B: Agree.
[00:10:25] Speaker A: Right.
[00:10:25] Speaker B: I think you're also seeing the piece where in the 50s consumers bought a house and they made a 30 or 40 year commitment. That's not the norm anymore. I don't know that math, but I would assume the average consumer is moving every four to seven years. I think that's realistic.
[00:10:41] Speaker A: We saw in the past that the average time for a borrower to hold a mortgage is three years. I believe that's unshortened since rates did what they just did.
[00:10:49] Speaker B: Fair enough. So in looking at that, are buyers making long term huge commitments? I don't think so. So getting into the marketplace, earning your equity back, making some money and moving on I think is an appropriate action step.
[00:11:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree.
I got to ask you something. Right. So the media is telling us that we've got this down market. Everything's just awful and oh, subprime. Everybody loves to talk about the 2008 like it's in comparison.
[00:11:14] Speaker B: That's over. Let's move on.
[00:11:16] Speaker A: At the same time, not you move.
[00:11:18] Speaker B: On, let's media move on.
[00:11:20] Speaker A: No, it's fine, it's fine. At the same time, JP Morgan is just an article came. Did you see this? With.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: They're talking about buying a billion dollars or developing a billion dollars in single family rental real estate.
[00:11:34] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:11:35] Speaker A: So if real estate is this toxic waste, why are they putting all this money into it? I don't understand.
[00:11:40] Speaker B: Real estate is a phenomenal investment.
The whole thing is confusing to me.
I like that Morgan is getting involved. I think it's important. I like that the banks have some involvement in some way. But a billion dollars in real estate for an entity of that size makes me a little concerned for what the media is portraying versus what the banks are seeing. If the media is saying that the market is so terrible, why would Morgan want to get in at a billion dollars?
[00:12:10] Speaker A: Well, your analogy earlier of that real estate is similar to Wall Street, I would think. Do you call that, I don't know, stock manipulation? I mean, maybe you're lowering the price because the consumers think, oh, everything's down. That's why you should pay this more expensive rent, because you shouldn't buy.
[00:12:24] Speaker B: Maybe it's manipulating the market. I'm not really sure. I haven't understood it enough to know exactly what the motivation is.
[00:12:31] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:12:32] Speaker B: But I do think that they've outsourced it to a third party company. Also makes me go, yeah, right.
[00:12:40] Speaker A: Pass off your friends and then plausible deniability.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: And let's understand this third party company. Right. There isn't a whole lot on their website to understand.
[00:12:49] Speaker A: I saw that too. There's really not a lot there. Which tells me that maybe we're speculating, but maybe it's his friend. I don't know, maybe they just decided that, oh, yeah, we're going to build some houses.
[00:12:59] Speaker B: I think that it's important that everyone gets involved in the best way that they can. And I think that Morgan wants to get involved. They should. But a billion dollars into the real estate market could artificially inflate the market and could create an industry or a space that doesn't make sense for the consumer.
[00:13:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree.
So talking about the market and consumers and what they're afraid of with 2008 and the exposure and whatnot, how about inflation? Last week we saw a report come out that was showing that inflation was cooling. Right. And so what did we see happen? We saw that interest rates followed, just like I've been saying. Well, what's interesting about that is that the 2008 mortgage crisis and inflation and all these scary terminology that's brought around, are you hearing that with your buyers and sellers today? Is that an actual problem?
[00:13:50] Speaker B: They're asking the question, but they're not concerned. They're asking the question because they're informed and they want to understand what's happening. But the reality is our market, specifically in the midwest, is just keeping up. We didn't see the dramatic appreciation that the coasts saw. We saw relatively steady appreciation, but we didn't see absorbant amounts go through the roof. So the midwest really hasn't seen this dramatic inflation in real estate like other parts of our country have.
[00:14:19] Speaker A: It's interesting you bring that up, too. Is that the desert states, right. Quickest to climb, quickest to fall. So when we see these reports that are going to come out probably next year that say that, oh, real estate's come down in price, but they came down from what?
[00:14:31] Speaker B: From what? That's always the question. From what?
[00:14:33] Speaker A: If a California buyer sells his house, he's got a million dollars in equity, and he pays cash for a house in Arizona, but he pays 150 grand over s. Right. And it comes down 75. You're still up 75. Right.
I don't think we saw much of that in Illinois.
[00:14:49] Speaker B: Right again. Real estate is more like the stock market than it is real estate.
[00:14:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Fair enough. Fair enough. So I got a question for you.
[00:14:57] Speaker B: I'm ready.
[00:14:57] Speaker A: You had to take a guess at what you think the biggest price increase due to inflation was commodity wise.
[00:15:03] Speaker B: What do you think it was commodity wise?
I must say. Milk.
[00:15:11] Speaker A: Milk. It's a good guess. It was actually eggs.
For those of you don't know, I actually have chickens. I feel like chickens, the new bitcoin.
[00:15:20] Speaker B: Now tell me stories about your chickens talking to you.
[00:15:23] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, they do.
Listen, I have friends and they have feathers, and it's fine. Okay. I'm proud of it. No, honestly, they're the best pets ever to have, and their maintenance is pretty minimal. But I have eggs now, and I get to give everybody eggs as presents.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: I'll be over for eggs to fly.
[00:15:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Done and done. So did you see this whole report that Lawrence Yoon came out with the chief economist for National association of Realtors?
[00:15:49] Speaker B: Yes, I did.
[00:15:50] Speaker A: It's wild, right?
[00:15:51] Speaker B: It is wild.
[00:15:52] Speaker A: I mean, we're still seeing a 0.3% appreciation.
[00:15:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:55] Speaker A: Oh, you know the market's going to crash, right? When chief economists are telling us that we're still going to now, not a huge number, but at least it points us in the direction of where we're going. Right.
What do you think the hottest market is to look out for for next year?
[00:16:09] Speaker B: You know I read the article, right?
[00:16:10] Speaker A: Yeah, of course you read the article. So Atlanta. Atlanta, right.
[00:16:14] Speaker B: Atlanta.
[00:16:15] Speaker A: If Atlanta is going to be doing well, which historically it's up, down, up, down, like everything else. That tells us that we're seeing growth in these markets, that maybe the desert states have something to do with the national reports, but we're still going to see appreciation.
[00:16:30] Speaker B: So I think so I don't think we're going to see any major declines or huge fallouts. We have quality loans, as you know, we have quality borrowers and we really don't have any negative equity in the houses. Buyers needed to put something down in order to buy a house. So we really don't have any huge negativity here.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: It's a great point. The loan quality has never been higher. Right. So when you compare the 2008 scaries, right. Of everybody thinking, oh, there's going to be this. To get a mortgage these days, you can't really lie. You have to show your tax returns, you have to show your income. There's products out there that let you be a little creative, but for the most part you're really an honest borrower with good credit and a job that's buying real estate.
[00:17:11] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. Fair enough.
[00:17:13] Speaker A: So if you had to give unfiltered advice to an agent who's watching this, listening to you doing 90 million, listening to you, 90 million, right. Mental health is a big thing right now.
[00:17:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:28] Speaker A: You have some people that are watching these going, well, that's great for you.
I'm doing all the work. I'm doing all the things. What advice would you give an agent that's struggling with production right now or that is just listening to you and doesn't have maybe the coaching or mentoring behind them?
[00:17:44] Speaker B: Well, call me, I'll talk to you. I'm just a girl who happened to wear heels today, but really I clean toilets and put away dirty underwear at everyone else's house just like you do. I'm no different.
Advice for a new agent or an agent that's struggling, sure. Stick at it. Stick at it. Know the market that is. I think the biggest feature of a broker is knowing and understanding the market.
I could tell you that I've been in almost every single home for sale in my network where I sell. And that is true. Nerdy, but it's true. And that's my job, is I can sit down with a seller and say, your house is likely worth x, y or z. Because I have been in these ten houses and I know exactly what they smelled like, I know what they felt like, I know what the floor plan looked like. I understand how the market is moving and that's really important to know.
[00:18:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
Through all of it, what I get from you. Consistency, right? You're consistently learning the data, you're learning what's going on and you're staying the course so that way you can be the best for your buyer, your seller.
I have to ask you this since you're helping others.
It's a cool exercise.
[00:19:01] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:19:02] Speaker A: Tim Ferriss actually is the one I heard this from and I just want to replicate it. So if you had to choose a quote that you could put on a billboard for everybody to see, what would it be?
[00:19:13] Speaker B: Well, this wasn't on our.
Listen, listen.
[00:19:16] Speaker A: I'm telling you. What is your quote? What was your mantra that you live by that you would share with others?
[00:19:22] Speaker B: Can I swear on this?
[00:19:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:23] Speaker B: Please don't be an asshole.
[00:19:25] Speaker A: Right?
[00:19:26] Speaker B: The number one rule in life is just be cool and the world will follow you. The golden rule. Maybe I would choose something cleaner. The golden rule, just do unto others as you would want others to do unto you and the world will be good to you. Back.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: I can tell you that for those of you watching this, that it's true. Right? We've done deals together and the consistency behind it is that the clients will go, Holly's awesome. And it's not just like she's great, it's that she's awesome. She'll actually tell me what I need to hear, not what I want to hear.
[00:19:58] Speaker B: And that's a hard part of the job. So I can think of a particular client where their house needed to be really cleaned and really staged and they really needed to do the extra work. It smelled like wet dog. And it's my responsibility to make sure that the product sells. And if I can't tell the seller that your house smells like wet, dirty dog, I have failed my seller. So having those tough conversations is an important part of the job. There's a nice way to do it, but it's an important part.
[00:20:27] Speaker A: I think that a lot of agents, especially if it's their only deal, they get scared, right? So we see these things pop up on social media where, and I'm not a fan of this. I don't think it's fair to make fun of someone's house. But it happens, right? All those crazy groups and all those things. You don't want that to be your listing, right?
[00:20:42] Speaker B: Oh, no. But I've had those listings on those places and sometimes it's really good marketing.
[00:20:49] Speaker A: All right, so what comes to mind is your worst listing. Is it the dog one?
[00:20:54] Speaker B: Well, you know the dog house.
No. My worst listing. I would argue that the hardest listing I ever had to sell was one of my first listings because I didn't know what I was doing, and I made some mistakes and I learned from those, and I did much better, and I won't ever make those errors again.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:16] Speaker B: It takes a long time to really comprehend that you're helping a person make one of the biggest financial decisions in their life and a humongous, emotional decision. And guiding them through that with honesty is crucial. It's just a big part of the job.
[00:21:31] Speaker A: Blunt and brutal honesty. Right.
Sometimes you don't want to hear it.
[00:21:36] Speaker B: Brutal.
[00:21:37] Speaker A: That's great. So who's your hero, if you had to pick one?
[00:21:39] Speaker B: Batman.
[00:21:39] Speaker A: Batman. Batman's your hero. Just saying. You heard it here first.
